USFS Type 61 Engine questions

[Birken Vogt]

http://www.allisontransmission.com/s...t=SA5657EN.pdf

[BDFWildFire]

Both these engines are from my district..is there anything I could ask the former captains of them for you? Crazy to see that they're still alive somewhere!

[Kicks]

Hey all, My apologies for the post and then run off... My senior rescue dawg was having some medical issues which were needing the time and attention. So now, with much sadness, I'm back to business as usual.

First off, I'm finding it absolutely incredible that we wildland firefighters can hold a "mechanic's forum" off to the corner on the wildland "front porch". And, the lively discussion between BV and FireMech is hitting the reasoning for my original post dead center. I was originally looking to see if these critters had been fed the diet of synthetic or regular lubes out of concern to prevent any cross contamination. And... FireMech is absolutely correct that synthetic being used after normal lubes have been in there for a while will wipe out the seals. If I'm not mistaken, the silicone had a tendency to dry out the seals causing them to fail. Keep up the input, it's healthy!

BDF - We've opted to use Eng-21 as primary for a few different reasons. The major ones were that it already had the Dayton rims, as well as the choice of foam unit in place. That one's just about ready for re-paint. I'll be going a-z on Eng-2 next. Beside a whole bunch of other hats, I'm an air brake mechanic as well. So, other than synthetic or regular lubes, are there any quirks to watch for with either of them? Also, I thought I'd seen an equipment list kicking around for the compartments. There's no sense in trying to re-invent the wheel if you have one available.

Ab! - Could you possibly forward my contact info to BDFWildfire for direct emailing of lists, etc. so we don't plug up the forum too much?

Thanks for all! And... "Stay safe!' "Kicks"

[abercrombie]

Hi Kicks,

You can send him your email addy in a "Private Message". The PM Box for accessing that is in the top right corner of your screen.

With theysaid we didn't have this nifty feature.

Ab.

[firemechanic]

one thing to watch closely and it takes only a quart or two of gear oil , keep a very close eye on the pump trans ( gearcase) after sitting and then being used theres a good chance the seal will take a dump and fill you pump trans with water , if ya catch it soon enough its no big deal . also get it pump tested before you put it in service , what pump does it have the small hale or the darley ? pm me if you need a source for pump testing , depending on where your at . i may be able to help ya out with that

[Kicks]

From memory, I'm thinking I saw a Hale up there. Changing that oil, and really watching what's coming out, is "cheap insurance"! Thanks for that reminder. Got a recommendation on the gear lube weight for that? Also, that stirred some grey matter. I didn't see a primer anywhere. We pulled the pump panel forward a bit figuring to at least see a small electric... but nothing. My guess was that they probably relied on either having a portable pump at a drafting site, or filled the hard suck by hitting the tank to pump. I've always favored that trick because it gets the impeller seals wet the quickest (plus, I didn't have to mess around with the primer oil back at the barn later). As far as pump testing, I have a pretty good guy over here for that. I should be able to handle any seal work, or rebuilding if necessary, for it right "in house". Thanks!

[firemechanic]

From memory, I'm thinking I saw a Hale up there. Changing that oil, and really watching what's coming out, is "cheap insurance"! Thanks for that reminder. Got a recommendation on the gear lube weight for that? Also, that stirred some grey matter. I didn't see a primer anywhere. We pulled the pump panel forward a bit figuring to at least see a small electric... but nothing. My guess was that they probably relied on either having a portable pump at a drafting site, or filled the hard suck by hitting the tank to pump. I've always favored that trick because it gets the impeller seals wet the quickest (plus, I didn't have to mess around with the primer oil back at the barn later). As far as pump testing, I have a pretty good guy over here for that. I should be able to handle any seal work, or rebuilding if necessary, for it right "in house". Thanks!

hale pumps use 80/90 gear oil; waterous uses dex 3; darley uses gear oil,
so if you get water in it you either get a vanilla milkshake or a strawberry shake

it should have a primer on it , does it have a primer valve on the panel , some of the old usfs 61's had a little chickensh*t elec pump looks like a electricmotor with a rocker lug fitting on it , usually on the right hand frame rail under the back

[Kicks]

Hey! Great priming pump description! I didn't see it, but I'll re-check. I've rebuilt those in the past. If they're the same ones, they're 12 volt lawnmower starter motors with a piston / cylinder attached. The pistons actually use rubber o-rings as seals. They use them on some of the skid units also. Worst problem with them is when they get mounted with that drain hole in a position other than "down" Simple fix though, just drill another hole in the right place on the bottom. That keeps the chickensh*t electric motor from filling up with water... which usually causes the problem. And, reversing the diaphram works in a pinch until the get another one in your hands to replace it with.

[firemechanic]

the worst thing about it , those cheesy primers cost almost what a hale esp primer cost . i never been able to make one of the cheesy ones pull 22 inches of vac at 1500 elevation

[Kicks]

I finally got a chance to snag the door numbers for these pieces. Eng-21 was 6071, and Eng-2 was 6085. Also, on the primer question... my bad, I got getting mixed up with a Type 3 I had in a couple of weeks ago. Both of these have the good old hand primer mounted down to the lower right on the back of the buggy.
Tearing stuff off Eng-21 for paint... I'm really liking how these were put together, at least from the ease that you can pull it apart if need be.
Thanks for the info!