Fire Engine Hearing Protection/Intercoms??

[LTP]

Last summer while on a fire I noticed that one of the Forest Service engines (R-6 engine if I remember right, rather older as well) on the fire had an intercom system in the cab (headphones with mic etc), which got me thinking about several things.

Why hasn't the Forest Service and other federal agencies put Intercom in engines, especially the new ones that are coming out? Obviously there is the ever present money issue, but still it seems like they would serve two purposes.

1) they would provide hearing protection for all members, seeing as fire engines aren't exactly quiet and neither are sirens

2) provide a more efficient crew, granted I haven't been in a 62 or 326 yet, but I know in the 61's I couldn't hear a darn thing in the back, from my captain or from the radio. The captain had to make an effort to turn around and tell us what was going on. If we had an intercom system you would know exactly what was going on before you got out of the truck, or could be sure your engine crew knew exactly what the captain expected you popped out that door on scene.

Along those lines, the same should hold true for buggies. The problem is exaggerated even further with them, they are loud and they are long. If you are sitting in the back there is no way you will have a clue whats going on.

Granted there are some captains that want to/like to keep their subordinates in the dark:mad: but to me it seems like if that many more ears hear the radio traffic, they might catch something that someone else missed or be able to clearly relay among the crew that XYZ is taking the lead chainsaw today etc etc.

Thoughts? Am I totally off my rocker here?

[NOVCap]

You are not off your rocker at all. We outfitted all our engines with intercoms several years ago. They enhance crew cohesion and since my agency is self insured for workers comp, the money savings are real.I notice now that when I take off my headset for whatever reason, the noise level is uncomfortable. It realy should be a requirement for all FF.

[zummy]

They can be a great or a curse. Our first out structure engines had Firecom headsets in it. THose things rarely worked properly. We also had them on the brush rigs, and it was nice for the FF on the back to be able to tell the driver what they wanted. If it was windy at all though it was a royal PITA to hear anything over wind noise. The driver and FF were the only 2 that could talk to everybody without pushing a button. The Driver/Op could also transmit to dispatch as could the officer. Everyone else had to hit a black button on the headset to talk amongst themselves. It was also a pain if you had to go short distances around the truck to get to compartments. I myself much prefered an ear bud for my radio.

[LTP]

well the ones I have used on a volunteer engine were in the cab only. They were voice activated so you didn't have to push any button. Also wind was never an issue we rolled to calls with the windows down and it was like you were talking to me in a quiet room. The driver and the officer I believe had to push a button to talk to dispatch but we could hear the radio traffic in our headsets. They were very nice to have.

I have never seen headsets outside of the engine, but that's not a bad idea for the operator. I was talking strictly inside the cab.

My thoughts on Buggies were have a headset hanging above each seat. You could even isolate the rear compartment sets so that they could hear radio traffic, listen to music or talk to each other. Also have the front isolated from the front intercom, but have it so the captain or who ever is in the front be able to communicate with everyone at the touch of a button.

It has to be much safer than having the captain turned around in his seat and leaning through the back cut-out yelling at everyone about whats going on.

[bcjack]

We had headsets for all seats in our engines since 1980 something. Our Engineers also had a plug at the pump panel. Later on, we had adapters made for the Engineers so they could hook the headset to their portable radio and be mobile. After promoting to B/C, I had a headset in my Tahoe and for my portable. Wish I had them earlier in my career as I retired with tinnitus and some high frequency hearing loss.

[exjefe]

The only way I was able to get funding for my agency for headsets (all apparatus), was to show industry-wide statistics on hearing loss and eventualy costs associated with it (% disabled at retirement, hearing aids, etc). A simple cost/benefit analysis. It was a while ago, but I believe we showed a payoff if just two of our peeps had experienced moderate to severe loss (<40 FFs, 8 apparatus). Perhaps Casey & Co. can find specific statistics relative to the Fed side? This is a big deal, folks. Severe hearing loss is no walk in the park. It totally changes your world, whether still working or retired and not for the better!

Also, I notice that most DoD fire agencies have them on structural and brush equipment. Why not the wildland agencies?

[Pyro5755]

... Also, I notice that most DoD fire agencies have them on structural and brush equipment. Why not the wildland agencies?

exjefe, I asked that here on HL about a year ago, and have looking for an answer since; no luck so far.

The best answer anyone's come up with is that CalOSHA was the agency which initially mandated onboard hearing protection, not Fed OSHA - so they had no authority over Fed lands agencies - and that newer equipment is now built with integral noise level controls (sound deadening walls, etc), thereby alleviating the Feds' need to address this issue.

Like many, I hated the dam* things when we first got 'em... and it took me about a week to learn to love 'em, and be spoiled by them. As others have said on this thread, there are several benefits to them other than hearing protection.

Good thread, LTP!

[Onelick]

I use a David Clark intercom system every shift now that I'm on the back end of a ladder truck. When I was the Operator of an engine, I used Fire Com. Of the two, David clark wins hands down. Less alternator noise, more convenient with the vox, vs push button, and it is more ruggedly built. However, some FireCom units have a built in digital recorder, so the officer can record any instructions or directions, and play them back later. Just remember that the David Clark systems don't take a pressure washer to the main box too well....

Onelick

[Birken Vogt]

David clark wins hands down.

Having used them from both an installer and a fireman standpoint, I agree wholeheartedly. The other one just feels like putting your head in a vise after time, and the words always getting cut off are annoying. DC is easier to communicate over, more comfortable, and higher quality (it is aviation equipment after all). Except it has an aviation price tag as well.

One thing to consider depending on your application: I have been in custom cabover fire engines that were seemingly as quiet to ride in as your car. So it is not a requirement that they be built like a rattly plywood box to cause hearing damage in the first place.

Birken

[Hilbille]

We had headsets for all seats in our engines since 1980 something. Our Engineers also had a plug at the pump panel. Later on, we had adapters made for the Engineers so they could hook the headset to their portable radio and be mobile. After promoting to B/C, I had a headset in my Tahoe and for my portable. Wish I had them earlier in my career as I retired with tinnitus and some high frequency hearing loss.

Same here bc, love the headsets in the rigs. I can't understand why more departments or agencies don't add them into the cost of an apparatus when they write their specifications. We speced them in all our apparatus up front and the cost was not as great as a retrofit. Long term hearing loss in not a joke, I would love to hear birds singing, but can't unless I'm standing under them and that not the best place to be. They are now manufacturing "bluetooth" or wireless units, which should work great with portables when you have a man on the ground beside or around the rigs, dozers included. It's hard to wear a headset for a length of time, but there should be ear buds that crewmember could wear in a crew buggie..it their want to hear front seat communications...